Evoque Owners Club banner
141 - 160 of 174 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
551 Posts
As discussed in other threads, there is an element of risk though. If your bolts should fail when being removed you end up in a position where LR won't help you and a new rack is most likely required!
So rather than a "no brainer" it also depends on how your luck runs :)

If this wasn't a risk I reckon LR would be changing bolts...
Fair point!
The risk element could be reduced (but not eliminated) by LR specifying a maximum undo torque at which point you abort (although maybe there isn't space to use a torque wrench?), a descent mechanic will know with "feel" anyway.
Bottom line is JLR bean counters have more sway than customer relations.
If the desire was there then a procedure could be put in place, replace the bolts where possible, if a bolt snaps above a set value then you've saved it happening further down the road - on the road. And as @makkan00 intimates, in the engineering world the rack is still recoverable even if snapped, it just means the customer is more inconvenienced (but not as much as a failure on road). Of course also greater expense for JLR, but that will get them in the end anyway.
But until JLR is hit by sufficient litigation there just isn't the will.
 

·
Registered
MY15 2.2L
Joined
·
2,989 Posts
For others coming across this thread due to the steering issues it's worth looking here for Land Rover's Canadian Recall details:

"Dealers will replace the aluminum mounting bolts with coated steel bolts and will apply a corrosion-preventative sealer around the gear housing and connecting bolts. If a bolt is found to be broken or breaks during the course of the repair, a replacement steering gear will be installed."

 
  • Like
Reactions: Col_C and makkan00

·
Registered
2013 L538 RR Evoque Pure Tech td4
Joined
·
2,279 Posts
Dear Mac
From the picture that you attached with the shiney new bolts, I’m not sure that they are the ones causing the problem :-(
Its the three bolts that hold the PAS motor on to the rack and they can’t be seen from the wheel arch.
There have been a number of people sleeping better having replaced some aluminium torx bolts but not realising that the troublesome aluminium bolts are still in place.
It is the bolts with the red marks that fracture causing the motor to detach.
Apologies if I have misinterpreted your post, but from what I could see it looks like the bolts in the purple circle were replaced.
There is very little information and guidance available.

8779
 
  • Like
Reactions: makkan00

·
Registered
Joined
·
314 Posts
Discussion Starter · #144 ·
Its the three bolts that hold the PAS motor on to the rack and they can’t be seen from the wheel arch.
There have been a number of people sleeping better having replaced some aluminium torx bolts but not realising that the troublesome aluminium bolts are still in place.
It is the bolts with the red marks that fracture causing the motor to detach.
Apologies if I have misinterpreted your post, but from what I could see it looks like the bolts in the purple circle were replaced.
There is very little information and guidance available.
David, Thanks for pointing out. You might be right. I will check with Jon tomorrow.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CoolBlueWhyte

·
Registered
MY15 2.2L
Joined
·
2,989 Posts
Blimey, if that garage have replaced the wrong bolts (for 15 vehicles) they'll need to make some phone calls!

In your earlier post about this garage knowing the torque requirements and LR don't - I'm pretty sure LR will know all the required torque settings!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,426 Posts
David, Thanks for pointing out. You might be right. I will check with Jon tomorrow.
Dear Mac
From the picture that you attached with the shiney new bolts, I’m not sure that they are the ones causing the problem :-(
Its the three bolts that hold the PAS motor on to the rack and they can’t be seen from the wheel arch.
There have been a number of people sleeping better having replaced some aluminium torx bolts but not realising that the troublesome aluminium bolts are still in place.
It is the bolts with the red marks that fracture causing the motor to detach.
Apologies if I have misinterpreted your post, but from what I could see it looks like the bolts in the purple circle were replaced.
There is very little information and guidance available.

View attachment 8779
That’s worrying. A garage possibly replacing the wrong bolts, telling people they are now safe when potentially it’s not the case!
 
  • Like
Reactions: CoolBlueWhyte

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,426 Posts
Blimey, if that garage have replaced the wrong bolts (for 15 vehicles) they'll need to make some phone calls!

In your earlier post about this garage knowing the torque requirements and LR don't - I'm pretty sure LR will know all the required torque settings!
Recall the cars as well for rectification!
 
  • Like
Reactions: CoolBlueWhyte

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,426 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
314 Posts
Discussion Starter · #150 ·
Dear Mac
From the picture that you attached with the shiney new bolts, I’m not sure that they are the ones causing the problem :-(
Its the three bolts that hold the PAS motor on to the rack and they can’t be seen from the wheel arch.
There have been a number of people sleeping better having replaced some aluminium torx bolts but not realising that the troublesome aluminium bolts are still in place.
It is the bolts with the red marks that fracture causing the motor to detach.
Apologies if I have misinterpreted your post, but from what I could see it looks like the bolts in the purple circle were replaced.
There is very little information and guidance available.

View attachment 8779
David, I am trying to locate a document/pdf file where JLR shows which bolts should be replaced and struggling. I believe that in this pic, its steering wheel rack is upside down and the front of it is facing to the right of this pic.

Looking at the JLR official repair manual, these are the diagrams:

8785




8786




8787



I cannot figure out the bolt which needs replacing. Looking at the pic that you posted and the diagram above, it appears that the electronic motor is toward the back of the steering wheel rack rod?


Blimey, if that garage have replaced the wrong bolts (for 15 vehicles) they'll need to make some phone calls!

In your earlier post about this garage knowing the torque requirements and LR don't - I'm pretty sure LR will know all the required torque settings!

Let's not jump on to the conclusion before we figure ut facts :)

And I have gone through the whole JLR repair manual and there is all sort of torques but not for the steering wheel bolts. JLR considers it as a complete unit, but surely their apprentice must be using some sort of toruqe. Jon said that he has contacted JLR dealers and the company that make bolts and they were unable to provide torque figures.



I need deep digging here to find the recall paperwork or at least find which bolts should be replaced.

I am sure that if they changed the wrong bolts, they will / should put things back to what they should be, by contacting the owners.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CoolBlueWhyte

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
9,426 Posts
8788
 

·
Registered
MY15 2.2L
Joined
·
2,989 Posts
...
And I have gone through the whole JLR repair manual and there is all sort of torques but not for the steering wheel bolts. JLR considers it as a complete unit, but surely their apprentice must be using some sort of toruqe. Jon said that he has contacted JLR dealers and the company that make bolts and they were unable to provide torque figures.
I guess you mean steering rack rather than wheel.
Where LR are recalling and attempting to change the bolts as part of the fix they will be following detailed instructions in the recall bulletin, so I wouldn't expect those torque figures to be in a normal workshop manual :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: makkan00

·
Registered
Joined
·
551 Posts
Dear Mac
From the picture that you attached with the shiney new bolts, I’m not sure that they are the ones causing the problem :-(
Its the three bolts that hold the PAS motor on to the rack and they can’t be seen from the wheel arch.
There have been a number of people sleeping better having replaced some aluminium torx bolts but not realising that the troublesome aluminium bolts are still in place.
It is the bolts with the red marks that fracture causing the motor to detach.
Apologies if I have misinterpreted your post, but from what I could see it looks like the bolts in the purple circle were replaced.
There is very little information and guidance available.

View attachment 8779
Well spotted cbw!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
314 Posts
Discussion Starter · #154 · (Edited)
I guess you mean steering rack rather than wheel.
Where LR are recalling and attempting to change the bolts as part of the fix they will be following detailed instructions in the recall bulletin, so I wouldn't expect those torque figures to be in a normal workshop manual :)
meant to say steering rack. I get confused with these terminologies.


Ok, reading a bit more, bolts going into red marks should be changed and not orange ones. Marked in red by David in his post.

8789



This is further covered by HmmmUK here: Steering failure.

That thread has a further link to the Russian thread: Ремонт рулевой рейки | Range Rover Evoque | cервисная акция № 184 — United Spare Parts | USP Service on DRIVE2

Also, shown on disco here: Power Steering Failure - Page 13 - Discovery Sport Forums

Apparently, Tesla Model S was fitted with the similar steering wheel rack 'Land Rover EL32-3200-DB 7818 974 389' manufactured by ZF lenksysteme gmbh. Apparently Tesla has opted to recall:

But JLR hasn't started a recall!

Appears to be a common fault on Ford Mondeo as well.


This means, I will discuss it with Jon tomorrow and hopefully, it can be rectified soon.
 

·
Registered
MY15 2.2L
Joined
·
2,989 Posts
Lucky/interesting that the replacement bolts you sourced were the same size if they've been used in a different component. If it turns out the wrong bolts were replaced perhaps worth checking they were the same spec?
 
  • Like
Reactions: CoolBlueWhyte

·
Registered
2013 L538 RR Evoque Pure Tech td4
Joined
·
2,279 Posts
Great bit of discussion guys, I‘m glad I have interpreted your post correctly. As painful as this is it does highlight the great community that we have here in the EOC.

I haven‘t done mine yet, when I do I was going to snag some decent pictures and do a write up to help others just like Makk did here with his latest battery and ally bolt post.
The bolts supplied by R&R Steering are 8.8 grade 65mm long M8’s and they appear to fit in multiple positions including the EPAS motor retaining bolts.

I too looked at the Evoque manual and the diagrams in Makk’s post above and found them none too helpful.

Here is another picture snagged off eBay of a repaired rack with the bolts replaced.
This is almost how it sits in the car with the motor at the back. Again the three bolts that need replacing are marked with red lines. The blue x is the one/s that have been replaced and possibly the top red one as well?
The aluminium protrusion marked with yellow arrow (and 2 x No.7 on Makk’s exploded view above) is where the rack is bolted to the subframe with two large and very tight bolts.
These two bolts need to be loosened but not completely removed so the rack can be raised just enough to get to all three EPAS bolts.
Remember to replace one at a time so the tension is not lost on the drive belt.
I did think that marking the exact position of the steering rack bolt heads would be a good idea so the steering alignment and tracking is unchanged when reassembled.

8790



This is just a standard bolt torque tightness table. The aluminium M8 full thread bolts would not be as tight as this table suggests for 8.8 grade M8 steel bolts.
It would be good to find the exact tightness figure.
I would also use some blue loctite on the threads. As well as securing in position is aids the corrosion resistance of mating parts.

8791



I hope it goes well with your interesting discussion with your mechanic Jon.
We look forward to the update. Maybe you could ask Jon to take some pictures as he replaces the correct bolts?

Good Luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
314 Posts
Discussion Starter · #157 · (Edited)
Lucky/interesting that the replacement bolts you sourced were the same size if they've been used in a different component. If it turns out the wrong bolts were replaced perhaps worth checking they were the same spec?
Post 154.

There are five bolts there of similar size/ gauge and hence confusion on the part of the garage / potentially many others who might have changed the wrong bolts.

Studying this in detail, the most common failure happens to those three bolts which attach an electric motor to the steering rack and two potential explanation:
1- Torque from electric motor puts/ add some torsional forces on those three bolts leading to failure.
2- Mechanics explained in bullet one above leads to minor gap b.w motor and steering rack housing and that is where corrosion sets in. Or there might be a nano-meter gap leading to corrosion setting in.


EDIT: third bolt which has minor corrosion was the one that was taken out last and was taken from where the electric motor attaches to the rack.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
314 Posts
Discussion Starter · #158 ·
Update:
Spoken to Jon and explained this and sent a link to this thread.
He informed me that he discussed this with JLR tech approx two years ago. Apparently, JLR tech informed him about those three bolts which were replaced on my car. Perhaps JLR tech should have shared the recall pdf file.

He was apologetic and was happy to put things right. Courteous enough to suggest collection / drop off car arranged by them, however, due to Mrs schedule, I have suggested that I will take the car to them.

I will update once it's done. I give credit to Jon and he was concerned about all other evoques which had this work done and he has to recall them as well. Surely, better than JLR who are agreeing to repair/replace once the car is broken down.
 

·
Registered
MY15 2.2L
Joined
·
2,989 Posts
As he's not a Main Dealer LR won't be sharing anything.

Out of the 15 or so Evoques he's worked on that need the problematic bolts changed I wonder if he will be unlucky and one will shear!
For me there's ALWAYS one bolt that doesn't play nice :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
314 Posts
Discussion Starter · #160 ·
Update:
Took the car back to Jon (We Fix Autocentre). The three bolts where an electric motor is fitted to the steering wheel rack were fitted in nearly 60-70 minutes. Can't fault their service. So, overall I have five shiny bolts now. Funny that rust/moisture was only on those bolts which were keeping the electric motor bound to the steering wheel rack.

I made a video showing all bolts changed (after they were changed). If someone is interested, I can post it however it will not help with the procedure.


The bolts supplied by R&R Steering are 8.8 grade 65mm long M8’s and they appear to fit in multiple positions including the EPAS motor retaining bolts.
These two bolts need to be loosened but not completely removed so the rack can be raised just enough to get to all three EPAS bolts.
Remember to replace one at a time so the tension is not lost on the drive belt.
I did think that marking the exact position of the steering rack bolt heads would be a good idea so the steering alignment and tracking is unchanged when reassembled.
Here is what is involved:
NSF wheel off.
The rear part of the NSF wheel arch off.
There is a small rectangular plate behind the subframe (held by 2 bolts) and remove that so you can have access to the subframe bolts for the driver side.
Remove 4 bolts (2 driver side and 2 passenger side) to loosen the subframe.
Loosen/ remove the seeing wheel rack (two bolts you mentioned). Removing or loosening does not affect the tracking or steering wheel alignment. In my case, they removed it and after putting them back, I can confirm that there is no issue with tracking or steering wheel alignment.

Lift the steering wheel rack up and change these three bolts. The location of the bolt is best described in the pic posted by Dave above. However, if you look at the steering wheel bolt location, it's not horizontal. In real life, the location of bolts is at 1, 5 and 8 o'clock position when looking at it from the NSF.

Hope it helps. For me, I would rather pay someone and get it done. Especially when We Fix autocentre had a very reasonable price.


Update on garage stance:
Jon has apologised multiple times. All cars have been recalled according to him. Additionally, they have given me a voucher for interim oil change + filter change.
It is hard to come across honest garages and he comes across as a genuine guy who takes pride in his work. I will be taking my cars to them for service/work etc. Worth following their insta/facepage if you want to see what they do.
 
141 - 160 of 174 Posts
Top