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Dpf issues

22K views 132 replies 17 participants last post by  SamSegar 
#1 ·
Well I’ve had the car 4 months been in garage twice and had 4 parts changed .land rover and peter vardy both say I don’t drive it properly and will not cover the parts if they fail again .ive contacted Melinda at customer executive centre and that was no good .peter vardy even said that I shouldn’t have bought a diesel even though they knew my mileage would be low and reassured me that one run once a month on motorway would suffice.here I am not knowing what to do or go next ..no where in the hand book does it tell you how to drive a diesel correctly and to regenerate when diesel creates soot in dpf.my car is a 2.0l d150 2wd evouque with 1800 miles on clock .
 
#2 ·
Its true that the Evoque isn't a very good knock around car. School run and shopping just don't cut it. 12,000 miles a year and you stand a decent chance of fairly worry free running. I hate it when they use the excuse that you ar'nt driving properly (driving style they usually quote) can't wait till they try it on with me and I show them the 42,000 miles Ive got out of my original rear tyres that still are at 4.5m. What style of driving do they actually want from us? Perhaps it should be mentioned in the sales blurb.
 
#3 ·
Hi Mark welcome ....While I dont dispute that short trips to & from the local shops will clog up a diesel to deny you your warranty is a bit steep considering I take it you didnt sighn a disclaimer is the car registered before mid 2017 ? J.L.R have a problem which is no secret that the DPF isnt fit for purpose in the 2L Ingenium engine for the average user many people on here are considering a change to come away from JLR cars for this very reason as their attitude when selling & after sales customer care isnt what you'd expect from a Prestige Dealership by far ...
 
#4 ·
Well I’ve had the car 4 months been in garage twice and had 4 parts changed .land rover and peter vardy both say I don’t drive it properly and will not cover the parts if they fail again .ive contacted Melinda at customer executive centre and that was no good .peter vardy even said that I shouldn’t have bought a diesel even though they knew my mileage would be low and reassured me that one run once a month on motorway would suffice.here I am not knowing what to do or go next ..no where in the hand book does it tell you how to drive a diesel correctly and to regenerate when diesel creates soot in dpf.my car is a 2.0l d150 2wd evouque with 1800 miles on clock .
They got that bit right. Most Euro 6 diesels need this as do some older ones.

.
 
#5 ·
No it’s a 2018 model first registered in jan 2018 now has1800 miles on .ive had two mass sensors changed ,a dpf filter ,an erg valve and erg gasket plus nothing in hand book about what to do to force a regeneration and I thought this is supposed to show up on dashboard which it didn’t do either
 
#6 ·
When the filter is full the EMS usually flags a yellow warning to take a run above 40mph for twenty minutes.
 
#8 ·
Mark dare I ask what made you choose a diesel for your needs being very low mileage trips (short journeys ) the reason I asked what year it was JLR changed their brochure literature so all cars sold after 17 plate stipulated the diesel wasnt advised for short journeys they also stopped free oil & filter changes some owners are saying the diesel isnt designed for average use because of the DPF doesnt get hot enough resulting in failed regen & the xtra diesel needed for the burn off being leaked back into the oil sump diluting the oil ..

Maybe a trip back to JLR to see what they can do to help & try to get a satisfactory result maybe a refund or an exchange for a petrol version however the petrol version hasnt the DPF problem but isnt very good on the mpg & with low miles (short journeys) there is also a choice of maybe accepting an older pre 16 plate 2.2 model this hasnt the same problems but it too is going to get clogged up in my opinion ...
 
#9 ·
#10 ·
#11 ·
Trouble is Donna you don't have a leg to stand on!
Very much buyer beware!
If of course you were told by the salesman that 'this car is perfect for you, shops and back every day' then you might have a case!

I agree the DPF issues are a fiasco but they have been brought on by the need to achieve lower emissions from all combustion engines. DPF is a way of achieving this with diesel cars.
The Catalytic converter started the whole boat rolling with petrol engines.
The DPF only works when really HOT.
An engine only gets HOT when on a long journey.
A trip to the out of town supermarket isn't going to be long enough, yes your temp gauge is in the middle but the engine hasn't got up to its ideal temperature and that means the exhaust where the DPF is. I'm sure you knew that!
We have another problem that afflicts transverse engine cars, like the Evoque and Discovery Sport.
The position of the DPF is not ideal! Land rover are not the only car company that has issues here, BMW amongst others, all have problems.

Quite simply if you want a diesel engined car, with its main benefit, fuel consumption, then the exhaust gases have to be cleaned.

It may be referred to as EU 6 or whatever but it is a worldwide thing, let's not forget Dieselgate in America! Volkswagen and others doing there level best to cheat the emission laws in the USA!
Europes emissions are slightly more lenient by the way, so let's not have any European prejudice please!
This is a worldwide bid to reduce our ever increasing pollution.

There is a simple rule, buy petrol for short journeys and diesel for long journeys.
If you have deep pockets then go for a Hybrid or even total EV (electric Vehicle). iPace is a brilliant car but a little out of most people's budget!
If you like taking your car to a garage once a week, then a Tesla might fit the bill! It is a bit cheaper, but its reliability record is abysmal!

Is there an answer, well actually yes, Hydrogen!
Methane can be used but as it is only about half the thermal efficiency of Hydrogen is comes in a poor second.
Hydrogen produces water when burnt in air. No NOX, no CO2 it is a win win solution, but it is costly to produce.

The easiest way is to pass loads of electricity through water, that can be done at night by nuclear power stations!

Stuck in a traffic jam on the motorway, get out and have a drink from the exhaust! Pure clean water, a bit warm I grant you but clean!

Best

Ian
 
#12 ·
The whole set up of the DPF in the car in my opinion is a fault..... JLR by changing the wording to driving style in 2017 didn’t really wash it with me , it’s as if they put there hands up and admitted there was a design flaw, what they should of done at that point is to explain it in more detail , what are the guidelines in reference to how many miles is a short journey etc and if your only driving said “x” amount of miles then this cars not for you....
If the car in this instance has been sold from new ,from a main dealership then the salesman or women should be obliged to tell the customer of the problem, not expecting them to read a full brochure to find a line that basically is ,a get out of jail card! Different if you were buying second hand from a independent dealer..

If feel so strongly about this , a majority of people don’t understand car engines and set ups, they basically go into a dealer that’s selling a car they like the look of, with JLR being a prestige make of motor customers walking into a branch are not expecting to pay 34000 plus for a car that is basically not fit for short journeys, the salesman certainly don’t highlight or talk you through the issue and to me that’s deceitful, immoral...
The evoques I see around are usually driven by women who are doing school runs and shopping ,short journeys to work, there’s about 6/7 in the small estate where I live( 100 houses or so ),and all used for the same purpose!
Quite frankly by changing the wording in there brochure I think a good law firm would have a very good case to take this further, unless a disclaimer is signed upon purchase, which isn’t going to happen!
It’s basically mid sold , nowhere is there technical data to refer too ? What defines driving style?
 
#13 ·
Your clearly aware of the recent revelation then that the dpf WILL NEVER get hot enough to regen due to it being too far downstream of the engine hence oil dilution, to me thats a huge design flaw and NOT as the dealer says 'its your driving style, your driving it wrong' and one I feel has got legs, all it takes is an american and a clued up lawyer to file a class action law suit, I also agree on the hydrogen but if the story is correct that while the fuel (oil) companies hold most of the patents it will not happen in a very long time
 
#26 ·
I'm not sure about that Dv2?
I'm pretty sure regens are happening normally every few hundred miles for most owners.

Things would be more efficient if the exhaust setup was different. Extra diesel is injected to heat things up. So when a car is turned off before a regen completes (car reaches destination etc.) then this failed regen will have to be retried, again with more diesel in the system where a small amount each time can reach the engine oil.
 
#14 ·
The car is advertised to have a service every 20000 miles? Is there anyone on here with the 2 litre engine that has done this kind of mileage and not required a early service? I know many have gone in early to avoid oil dilution problems caused by ???? So technically that's a mistake sell.... Don't take the early service and your car's going to fail
 
#35 ·
Yes, ME ?. Just went over 20,000 last week after a nice tour up Loch Lomond, over to Mull then Fort William, Loch Ness, Perthshire, Linlithgow, North Yorkshire and back to Lincolnshire. Great trip, car never missed a beat and is booked in for its service on 10th July.only criticism of the car is the size of boot for such a trip, one case had to go on back seat and other stuff behind seats.
 
#15 ·
Im going with logic here if it was so easy to just hand the car back for a full refund or take JLR through the courts why do you suppose no one ever has? or maybe they have and been awarded hush settlements yet no one on here & no one that anyone can refer to has & of all the the Evoques & Discovery Sport Diesel models sold since late 2016 not one has been sold to a lawyers family who would gladly enjoy the challenge & be in the know how to win a case against JLR & for obvious reasons..

My feelings personally is yes there is a fault how big that fault all depends on your views my view is this if its a problem you cant live with sell it on before the warranty is up it saves alot of hassle surly than taking this matter through the legal system & maybe it costing you a f***** fortune if you lose & this fault is ongoing as far as im aware the new Evoque diesel has exactly the same problem so JLR do not seem very interested in changing the existing layout my point being that its not a flaw that seems to be coming back & biting them on the a*se ?
 
#16 ·
Im going with logic here if it was so easy to just hand the car back for a full refund or take JLR through the courts why do you suppose no one ever has? or maybe they have and been awarded hush settlements yet no one on here & no one that anyone can refer to has & of all the the Evoques & Discovery Sport Diesel models sold since late 2016 not one has been sold to a lawyers family who would gladly enjoy the challenge & be in the know how to win a case against JLR & for obvious reasons..

My feelings personally is yes there is a fault how big that fault all depends on your views my view is this if its a problem you cant live with sell it on before the warranty is up it saves alot of hassle surly than taking this matter through the legal system & maybe it costing you a **** fortune if you lose & this fault is ongoing as far as im aware the new Evoque diesel has exactly the same problem so JLR do not seem very interested in changing the existing layout my point being that its not a flaw that seems to be coming back & biting them on the a*se ?

Totally agree ... Nobody has publicly taken this on or I haven't seen anything or read of anyone that has.... I know if I'd bought one and was having this problem then I would be writing to return it.. maybe people have ? I don't see how it's not bitten there arse though ... I believe we will see it at some point or other in the papers..
 
#21 ·
I can not see any dealer openly telling you that there is a issue with there vehicles it’s there job to sell cars no sales no job.
But everyone has the opportunity to do some research before they buy
As for trying to take JLR to court over it you may as well put the money towards a RRS for what chance you would have off winning
 
#23 ·
Thread: Early Service/Oil Dilution - JLRP00100 View Single Post
post #77 of (permalink) Old 25th October 2018, 17:37
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Groupie

Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Jersey
Posts: 16
Successful DS Rejections for Oil Dilution / DPF
Two recent successful DS rejections recorded. The first one was for a car that the owner claimed was "Not as Described" under Section 11 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015:

https://www.discosportforums.co.uk/v...php?f=8&t=9397

The second one was a vehicle suffering from the faulty SCRF (DPF) problem described in the JLR Bulletin SSM73697. In this case the owner alleged that the car was "Not of Satisfactory Quality" under Section 9 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

Topix bulletin here: https://www.discosportforums.co.uk/v...hp?f=14&t=7558

Judgment against JLFS recorded by the financial ombudsman's office: http://www.ombudsman-decisions.org.u...?FileID=184931

Quote:
Finally I can’t ignore the fact there is a known problem with some of the manufacturer’s DPFs. The evidence suggests to me, this makes it more likely that Mr W’s car was fitted with a faulty part than if the manufacturer only had occasional DPF faults which couldn’t be considered part of a wider problem. To summarise, Mr W spent £40,000 to get a brand new, premium, car. I think it would be reasonable for him to expect it to be trouble free. For the reasons stated above I don't consider that the car supplied to be of acceptable quality. Richard Houlbrook, ombudsman.
 
#24 ·
So this says its a refund it doesn't say a full refund or any details for all we know JLR could of offered part payment on return its very unclear in my opinion .. No for me that isn't a satisfactory result I was referring to a compensation award for selling a car unfit for the purpose it was purchased for & to make the hassle of owning it worthwhile ..
Many on here like myself while its under warranty can live with it even with an xtra oil & filter change between services it'll be an interesting subject to raise to see how many people actually regret their purchase of the 2L Ingenium Evoque to include the new model ...
 
#25 ·
I just think spending that kind of money you should be made aware of the issue .. if they did then many would not of bought into the car , so like the ppi scandal it is classed as mis sold.... still think something will come back and haunt them .... is the new evoque set up the same way? Seriously cant believe they would do that knowing the initial problem
 
#27 ·
How does one know when diesel has entered the oil to dilute it?
 
#29 ·
Some cars have sensors (Dont know if the new Evoque does), otherwise the oil needs to be tested out of the vehicle.
 
#28 ·
I fully understand where you are coming from Donna, I think though the laws for returning a faulty or not fit for purpose vehicle need to be strengthened so manufacturers have a much bigger onus on them to make cars that do not have inherent design faults (and that is no easy thing to do to be honest), or they pay the price of fixing, redesigning parts or losing the Sale. A few months just is not enough.

Ultimately we want cars, and oil is basically a really bad thing to burn, just hold a plate over a candle for a few seconds, it goes black... now scale that up to the amount of candle power needed to run an engine, and then the number of engines on the road today... thats a lot of pollution!
 
#31 ·
Veteran

The easiest way to check the oil is to do regular dipstick oil level checks.

Once a week should be enough.
I don't know of any car that makes oil, so if the level goes up even by a small amount then dilution is nearly always a problem. Head gasket failure is another, but you see a yellow 'milk' around the oil filler cap when that happens.

So as long as you check your oil level after a fixed period of use, i.e. when the oil has drained back into the sump, and on the same part of your drive, as a car on a different angle will give a misleading result.
So usually the best answer is just before you start the car in the morning assuming it is in the same place as the last check!

I never fill my engine to the full mark on the dipstick, leaving it about a half centimetre down (1/4" in old money!).
It is then very easy to see any increase in level. Thank goodness mine only goes down by a VERY small amount between oil changes!

If you suspect an increase, you can suck a small amount out of the sump via the dipstick hole. Ebay has plenty of suction devices at all prices to do just this.
The absolute cheapest is to buy a syringe 100ml is a good size and then buy a metre of flexible plastic tube that will push on the syringe and poke that into the sump and suck up 100ml and take it to your dealer or oil specialist and get it checked.
Cost about £10, taking to the dealer about an hour at their hourly rate!

Best

Ian
 
#32 ·
Thanks for that Ian. I’ll check on a regular basis to see if the level increases.
 
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